Brexit Again

It seems that the forecasts of a National disaster following Brexit are still in play.
Theresa May is cast in the role of devil’s child because she’s to take the negotiations for our decision forward into Europe. Perhaps some don’t remember that she was not a Brexiteer but was in the Bremain Camp. Nor at the time of the referendum could she forsee the result and know she would be Prime Minister now. Despite that, she has agreed to do the honourable thing and carry the wishes of the majority forward.

Most of the doom and gloom that was forecast hasn’t happened and there must have been many shocked faces this week when a large car manufacturer declared they would be staying in the UK and taking forward two new models. The Government spokesman said there was no cheque book involved in the decision. No offer to pay any future tariff for them. I’m not naive enough not to think there wouldn’t have been some give and take on the day though but there have always been concessions made to bring the big manufacturers here and anywhere else.

It won’t be an easy ride for whoever is in Europe making the case for the UK and I’m quite sure there will be plenty of representatives of the other European countries who will want to extract blood for what they see as an insult. That’s fine as with all the predictions we have from over here will no doubt give them plenty of ideas what to do. I saw that billions of our £’s will be lost in penalties for leaving. It would be nice not to hear that one mooted too often. To my mind, when Britain leaves, as leave it must now, we still remain exactly where we are, a neighbour. We will no longer be a part of the Union but like we were before the Union was in place we can still be friends, still co-operate on many things like NATO and information on criminal enterprises. Whatever they do, we shall still be right in place as a possible customer for much of their produce. Be spiteful and we might buy elsewhere.

It must be remembered too that we weren’t the only country who have considered leaving the Union and many will be watching our fate. Yes, they may hope that being hard on us will serve as a warning to others but it could also make others wish to leave even more than remain as part of a spiteful group. This week there has been much hair pulling as Canada, ready to sign a trade deal with the Union was held up by five small places in Belgium, which prevented Belgium from signing. That can happen again and again. Brexit means we will no longer be held at the whim of such a small legislative body that wields so much power. One of the main reasons for the Brexiteers winning the referendum was to pull away from governance via Belgium and have the opportunity to set our own laws again. The losers cry that this will mean all the laws adopted from the EU will disappear like the Human Rights Act. This is a nonsense. All EU laws will be taken off our books when Brexit happens, but many will be adopted straight onto our own statutes at the same time. The Human Rights Act was always contentious with many because of Sherie Blair’s involvement in it. She seemed to be involved in some very expensive (i.e money earning) litigation from day one. Yes, I freely admit to not being a fan of the Blairs. Nothing has changed.

I’ve heard that the young blame the old for Brexit and yet I know that many young people voted to leave. Also, should the young not recognise that older people have more experience of life and don’t make decisions based on cheap travel abroad. There may come a time in the future when stepping back into the fold is possible and they can vote again  knowing they’ll be committed to adopting the Euro in the face of the elderly who don’t want it.

What I’m suggesting is that the Bremain people give it a while longer to see if we have concrete news of what the exit is going to cost us and stop worrying about what if’s and maybes until there’s something to worry about. At that time they can moan at what they don’t like but I hope also remember that regardless of what they want, it was a majority decision to leave and it’s that which forces Theresa May to act on our behalf. Even the Brexiteers will find something to moan about if costs soar as we’re told they will and at that time we’ll accept all the ‘Told You So’s’ that people want to throw.

I see charts that show how unfair it was that democracy wasn’t served during the referendum because so many people were not allowed to vote. It started with 16-17 year olds. Since it isn’t the law in the UK for that age group to vote and legislation wasn’t brought in before the event except in Scotland to change that, it’s just another excuse to moan. There’s no saying it would have changed anything anyway. And those Brits who have settled abroad, well maybe they should have been given the vote for this event but they weren’t so why include them now? Last but not least, those who did not vote were mentioned. Again I suggest you cannot say dragging them out would have changed things. Within the legal framework of the vote held in a Country recognised as a democracy the vote still went in favour of the Brexiteers even if just by a million. A democracy is one where the majority win, even by just one vote. Please just suck it up and get on with making sure the country weathers any storms. Save yourselves for the next battle. If Bremain had won we’d have had to grit our teeth and carried on. A lot is starting to sound like sour grapes now rather than considered opinion.

In conclusion ( to cheers no doubt). This week I saw part of a news programme that showed some Polish people who had returned home sure they were no longer welcome here and labelled as benefit scroungers. This is a sign that people are grabbing onto to show we have adopted a policy of containment and are now xenophobic. I want to say I have known many Polish People. They have all been hardworking and not in the least workshy. Britain has a long tradition of welcoming Poles to the UK and for me nothing has changed. The Brexiteers will have to accept that our Hotels and Hospitals are going to need the movement of people to cover jobs that it seems we are reluctant to fill ourselves and that we must adopt a policy of protection for their working hours and their pay which are in the Human Rights Act currently. Things may not be too different after all.

59 Comments

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59 responses to “Brexit Again

  1. These are confusing times, my friend.
    Hope this week treats you well.
    Massive why can’t people get along hugs xoxox

  2. Not to trivialise what you are saying, but I think Taylor Swift might have popularised it best ‘Haters gonna hate’. We are watching with a global eye on the country of our birth as they battle their own version of electoral war in the USA. Surely there is more than one way to achieve a country’s success, and the gutter politics just leaves a lot of darkness and hurt feelings in the wake, instead of lighting the way.

    • You’re right Ardys that a Country should be able to achieve success without gutter politics. It used to be that politics was when one wanted to serve where now it seems politics is when one wants to be served. We don’t need any more self, self, self in politics.
      I hope for a good outcome in the USA but I’m not sure one is possible given the two candidates. It’s hope for the best that can be.
      xxx Massive Hugs xxx

  3. As an Aussie, I have no say either way, so I’ll just wish everyone the ‘best of British’!

  4. So does this mean you think Brexit has happened- and so none of the predictions will materialize?

    • Ah no, I fear it will be a long drawn out process over the next two years. There have been grim predictions from day one of Brexit, what will happen in the face of what these terrible European hating, xenophobes have done. There was almost a cry of despair as most of the predictions led to nought. Sure, the pound has been devalued but that may be as a result of the predictions made by the money men rather than any particular need. And, in some quarters, ie manufacturing trade, that hasn’t proved a bad thing.The fears that massive enterprises like the large car makers will desert the sinking ship have also (so far) proved groundless.
      I don’t hate Europe and Europeans. I happily recognise that Britain needs continual immigration and welcome it but I’d rather be party to a trade agreement with Europe than subject to it’s legislation. I’d rather face the problems that appear as a result of the Brexit vote than live in continual fear of problems that might materialise. I’d rather accept Brexit since it’s happened and try to make the best of it than sit back and moan because it might not have gone my way.I will suffer any bad that happens and benefit from any good so it’s better to work towards the good.
      Hugs

      • Your attitude reflects well on you David. As an English-born Australian, I am glad I didn’t have to be involved in the vote, but I hope more good than bad comes out of the whole thing.

      • Thanks so much Linda. I want what’s best for my Country and have to work for that from the point we’re at rather than the point some people think we should be at.
        However anyone feels, none of us voted for the EU as it stand today, our entry was as a trading partner only. Maybe we should go back to that point and then asked to vote on our level of involvement. I’d be very surprised if anyone voted to return to the point we’ve just left.
        xxx Huge Hugs xxx

      • The thing is that the financial predictions are directly linked to certain aspects of the Union.
        At the moment other than saying the word Brexit, nothing else regarding those important points has been decided.

        The loss of passporting rights for financial institutions would decimate the banking industry. That’s not a maybe. The EU only gives passporting rights to EU banks. There are no exceptions. There never have been and it would make no sense to allow an exception. If there were, banks would all have their headquarters in Dubai or the Cayman Islands where they’d be liable for little to no tax. So the idea there won’t be serious consequences is a fantastic underestimation. The banking industry (financial services) alone contributes tens of billions in tax revenue and tens of thousands of direct and indirect jobs.

        As for being subject to legislation, that’s more or less what Free Trade agreements do. They say the different parties will respect each other’s regulations in the production of merchandise. Is there any other sort of EU legislation that worried you in particular?

      • Thus far predictions is all there seem to be. I accept that changes to banking could have grave consequences but none of he Institutions seems to have moved from London so far.That no exceptions have been made to the rules governing banks doesn’t mean there couldn’t be. Given that London has been the centre of the industry for so long there may be some flexibility there yet. But if not, well it will have to be suffered.
        The legislation governing trade is not a particular worry but other legislation has caused problems here. The decision to allow prisoners to vote for instance, flew in the face of our own legislation. There have been stupid regulations regarding the straightness of bananas, some legislation regarding free movement has been an issue when people have traveled here to use the strong benefits system which has not been reciprocated in other countries of the union. Despite the fact that I think the UK should be taking more refugees than it has, especially the unaccompanied children I don’t believe it’s the job of anyone except the UK Parliament to be making those decisions.We are not ruled by Brussels. A couple of years ago I was involved with a woman in Italy whose child had been taken by the ex husband to live in Germany. She was the custodian. The German courts ruled in his favour because a German National was involved in the child’s care, that being the new girlfriend of a month.The appeals court in France were powerless.So, some countries can openly flout the legislation laid down by the EU while others try to follow the law.
        I am not good with words but I can say I like Europeans whilst not being Eurocentric. I believe we originally signed up to a Common Market and that’s what I’d prefer to be in than a Super state of Europe.
        Hugs

      • There’s a fantastic article in the FT today which explains the options quite well: https://www.ft.com/content/cd0d2ad4-9d23-11e6-a6e4-8b8e77dd083a

      • Thanks so much, I’ll take a look.
        Hugs

  5. I can’t say that I have lost friends over Brexit…but there has been a certain froideur in some quarters ever since -as if someone previously considered sane has the taken leave of their senses.
    I rather resent being described as uneducated and racist for holding the view that the EU has moved far from the idea of a free trade area and is attempting to over ride national governments – even by illegal mean as in the case of Greece.
    My income has taken a a hit – but it did that before when the U.K. was forced to leave the European money snake…I expect I’ll survive.

    • Had it not been for the state of various Governments in Greece I’d be more surprised they haven’t left the Union yet. I always had a sneaking hope they’d restore the Monarchy and ride the storm with increased revenues from tourism.
      I too dislike the labels applied to me for my beliefs that Europe has gone far beyond the original remit as a trade area. I don’t hate Europeans (nor anyone else for that matter), but I don’t care for my loss of Sovereignty.
      I expect we will survive but I don’t doubt Government will hit our incomes more when they can get away with it. Here, I expect to see it in the changes enforced by PIP instead of Disability Living Allowances.
      xxx Huge Hugs to you Helen. xxx

  6. Ha, well written David. While as a convinced Remainer (and that won’t change for a while) I echo you on the stop moaning. Of course there’s stuff on which I’d take issue with you, but it is around the fringes and I abhor the extreme views expressed on both sides. That said I do think it right to continue to point out both potential problems and hopefully potential benefits all the way through, to keep our politicians as honest as they can be. And like it or no I’m with you on the referendum result; it was clear so on we go. One small thing (backing you up, you’ll be pleased to hear) there is to be what is described as the Great Repeal Act which will, at the same time as we leave, embody into British law (as appropriate given we have 3 different legal systems to cope with) all the European laws that are at that moment still in place (obviously there may be some other specific legislation changing big picture stuff but over 40 years there are inevitably a raft of stuff that might fall away if this didn’t happen). After, and in the fullness of time purely Eng/Welsh, Scottish, NI laws might be passed to replace such saved stuff – that might as Cameron wanted included the HRA but there wouldn’t be any real rush. One day we will find time for a coffee and put it all to rights.

    • Many thanks Geoff, as a man of the law your description of what is to come is word perfect. If we forge ahead aiming for the best we can be, both sides can, with the help of honest lawmakers, turn this into a positive event. If we keep looking for a black side we’ll find it soon enough.
      A coffee and shared chinwag would be nice.
      Hugs

  7. I have to say, I didn’t mind hearing moans from another country for a change. I’m tired of ours in the US. So, here is a massive hug for England and an equally massive one for you, David.

    • Wouldn’t it be nice to hear some positivity for a change Anne? With enough of it maybe we could change the mood of the world.
      Not long to go now for the US decision which I hope will make lives better there.
      xxx A Massive Cwtch from Wales for you xxx

  8. I feel your pain, David. 🙂 Actually, I do, but here in America we’re in a lot of painful apprehension, too. So I’ll offer you this token of comfort: after November 8th, whichever of our popular, adorable, honest and capable presidential candidates does NOT win the election…we will send that person over to help you all improve the Brexit problems. Okey-dokey?😉 Does that put it in perspective and cheer you up? Hugs! ❤

    • Heavens Marylin, I thought Halloween was about gentle scares, not trying to scare me to death. If the one that DOESN’T win is who I hope it will be I’m fleeing the UK ahead of the bombast.
      xxx Sending you Massive Hugs xxx

  9. Brexit has stirred all sorts of moaning and groaning, postulations it’s gonna be this it’s gonna be that well, I feel like you, David – Britain has existed before EU – and did very well thank you very much – and will exist without the EU quite well. At least it can now win back some of the international power it lost as member of EU, all sorts of shady characters, unfamiliar sorts, seem to be wielding power in EU and this seems to be playing on the minds of people of other countries who are starting to think they might be better off without the EU mishmash

    • I think you’re right Ina. Britain has an opportunity to get back a sense of individuality that we enjoyed pre the EU. Though we signed up for trade agreements it’s gone well beyond that into realms we never thought of, let alone agreed to. Giving so much rule to Brussels was not my choice so now I’m just trying to correct that.
      I hope others find reverting back to an area of European trade more appealing than their loss of Sovereignty.
      xxx Ginormous Hugs xxx

  10. …and now we’ve got Mark Carney the Canadian born Bank of England governor wringing his hands over Brexit. What all the idiots fail to appreciate is that the UK got along perfectly well before we joined the EU, and we’ll be fine once were free of its insidious grip.😉

    • With the trade deals currently on the table for Canada in the EU, I wonder where Mark Carney’s interests are. He’ll have a better time managing the rate for the £ once it’s free of interference I think.
      We once trade partnered the World and coped well with our responsibilities within Europe. No reason it can’t be that way again.
      Hugs

  11. I don’t really follow politics, however, I liked the way you put the information so clearly. This was most informative and helpful. Thanks, David.

  12. Interesting post, David. Gigantic Hugs. 🙂 — Suzanne

  13. It’s hard to see how any good will come from this, but of course there are pros and cons for both sides. I’m no politician, so I bow to your knowledge, but it seems to me that exclusion is rarely a good thing, in whatever context it’s applied. I think no one was more surprised than the British when the vote came in. As my former home, of course I wish nothing but the best for this new phase.

    • I don’t have any special knowledge Ali, just the thought that the count is in, let’s get on with it. I think you’re quite right that the result took many people by surprise on both sides.
      If after being invaded by the Romans 2000 years ago and a subject of theirs since, they decided to change some laws we wouldn’t notice. But we’v been our own masters a long time so governance from Brussels doesn’t sit well. I’m happy to remain close friends but want out of the marriage bed. I to want the best for the UK and think we need to pull together to get it.
      xxx Humongous Hugs Ali xxx

  14. I’ve been watching and wondering how this is all going to play out. I think much of the world is doing the same. I wish your beautiful country all the best, David.

  15. Fantastic post David. The world is full of uncertainty in these times it seems. We all have our axes to grind and crosses to bear. The UK is at a crossroads, the US is in a predicament, and here in Canada, it aint pretty! Where do run?🙂 Sending huge hugs xxxxxxxx

    • You’re so kind with your words, thank you. You’re quite right about axes and crosses. We live in uncertain times. I fear the Euro Superstate may take the ‘You’re with us or you’re against us tack’ and not accept a co-existence. I fear what’s happening in the US now and what will happen with Trump’s followers if he doesn’t win. A new Civil War? And lovely Canada, can Trudeau hold things together and turn them round? I have to hope. The world needs Peacemakers to bring wars to n end and give us chance to look at healing the planet.
      xxx Gigantic Hugs to you xxx

      • You’re so right David. And our ‘young’ Trudeau does worry many here. This year has certainly been marking history, and God Bless the USA, as we know, whatever happens there, we get the fallout. And I’d already been thinking of the repercussions if Trump doesn’t win, but that situation can be just as scary if he does, and by the looks of the dirt coming out this week, he could sprout up the winner despite predictions he’s unlikely to win. What a mess! Hugs welcome! And xxxxMassive Hugs back!xxx

  16. I have to respectfully disagree. A move so essential and far reaching should not be decided on a thin margin and excluding Brits abroad, or even Uk citizens, settled in the country for 23 years. In Germany – and Turkey – such major decisions need to have a clearer majority, not just 50%, but 60 or 75.
    To stop fighting for your believes isn’t un-democratic or a sign of being a sore loser but holding on to what you think is right and best for all.

    Re: Theresa Mayhem – she isn’t doing this to follow the will of the people but to chase the right wing voters, just as she sucked up to the remain camp when she thought they were more likely to support her.
    May’s rhetoric since she was elected home secretary and now PM has been homophobic, racist and divisive. She should be standing up for minorities as a leader and do what Gary Lineker does if she wants to make Britain work for everyone. Sadly, I’m not one she includes and her speeches at the Party conference were chilling, as is the extra level of bureaucracy at every corner now experienced for foreigners. Renewing your driving licence or applying for citizenship – after 25 years in the country, makes you feel very unwelcome.
    She sits quiet as newspaper headlines about truck drivers openly incite racism. In Germany our older generation was judged for standing by and it was said “You might as well have done this yourself, because you let it happen.”

    If I didn’t live in such a lovely safe bubble with very friendly people around me, and didn’t have UK citizens to look after. I would be gone, too.

    Sorry to rain on your parade. Feel free to delete this comment, but I needed to say this.

    Hugs all the same and much love from the Beautiful South!

    • I wouldn’t dream of deleting your comment Christoph. You have your opinion and are entitled to voice it. You’ll understand If I can’t agree with it though. I am unhappy to hear that you feel less welcome in this country and would leave were it not for your friends/family. I have plenty of immigrants in this area who don’t seem to be experiencing any problems and I haven’t heard a single racist or xenophobic remark since Brexit (or before).
      I’m never going to defend a politician to the hilt as they all change coats to suit themselves. But, I don’t know of any of the homophobic, racist and divisive rhetoric from May.I admit listening to her speech I concentrated perhaps too much on one thing that pleased me regarding the long term disabled- I’ve yet to see if that comes about before complaining. Yes, she should certainly stand up for our minorities.
      Last point (honestly), Whatever Germany and Turkey do will be written into their legislation. The vote in the UK complied with ours no matter how narrow the margin.
      You may still breathe a sigh of relief if the High Court determines that it’s the MP’s who decide about the timing of our exit. They’re quite capable of reneging on the election at which time the legislation could easily be changed to allow for a much larger difference in a referendum result.
      As always, Hugs

      • Thanks David. I too regard you as a friend, and a dear friend at that. Despite our differences it gives me great comfort that you hold on to your humanitarian kindness and principles.
        Funnily enough, the German constitution was written by the Allies, and much influenced by British philosophers and politicians. May was very reluctant on gay adoption and marriage, the homophobia was implied not stated.
        Her rhetoric in Birmingham was very cold towards EU citizens. I wish I had heard the positive about long term disabled – something close to me and my Uk family. I was shocked by her swing to the right and had to switch off because it upset me too much.
        Maybe your friends haven’t personally experiences xenophobia – I was told to shut up and if I didn’t like what the British decided for the country I should f off home.
        But also the headlines in the Mail about the 17 foreign/ Polish truck drivers using the phones while driving (vs the previous headline about 500,000 “people” in the Uk doing this) are dis-heartening, as is the Sun campaign against Lineker. So much hate, fear and lies – you must be aware of that. And nothing is being done against this.
        People buy these papers, so they must agree to some extent.
        Britian is a great country with many wonderful people in it but it’s not the country it was 20 years ago.
        Sorry for the rant. I will end on a positive note that I agree with some of the points you made in the above article.
        Wishing you a wonderful evening. Hugs!

  17. Reading your latest post I remembered I hadn’t read/commented on this one. Pretty much echoes my thoughts, as do your comments, those of Helen and Jack. Thereby pointing to the truism that old people support Brexit. Mainly because we remember life pre 1973. Not that I think we can go back, I don’t think we are all a bunch of nostalgic dotards although clearly others think so. I do think the country and the politicians need a kick up the proverbial and this boat-rocking result may provide it, instead of everyone just plodding along with the status quo. Politicians and civil servants may have to think with their brains instead of their bank balances.
    And, as has been mentioned a few times, (and not just on here) it’s the government from Brussels by fatcats over there that irks. We have enough of our own fat cats as it is. The EEC has gone, it went a long time ago, and the EU is more about building a superstate to rival America and Russia. Would I vote to join the EEC as was now? Probably. The EU as is? No.
    Living in the EU, Brexit is bound to affect me financially and bureaucratically.
    I think prices will go up. So what. The poor can’t afford anything anyway and everyone else gets a new flat screen tv/car/kitchen every two years and takes half a dozen holidays a year.
    And the pound has gone down, although no lower than it was some years ago, not helped by gloomy Carney, who obviously got his prediction wrong about how much it would fall. Fine person to have in charge of our national bank.
    With which I shall go and read your other post.

    • As always you said everything so much better than I did. You also covered every salient point. EEC yes, EU no. A Superstate in the making, if they can but I bet they still waste millions a month transferring the offices from one country to another files and all.
      When Brexit arrives I shall be happy to see our own gravy train MEP’s arrive back for unemployment instead of CEO of some Merchant Bank.
      Despite the poor prediction Mr Carney remains in post, ah well we all make mistakes. I for instance thought we would never develop a real nasty core of Haters as we have at the moment on both sides of the breach.
      Without wishing to complain too much, an impartial panel of judges of the Brexit question might have made more sense if there wasn’t to be an uproar. The papers always make it worse by stirring as hard as they can.
      xxx Huge Hugs xxx

      • Thank you, however, I think you articulated it extremely well from the perspective of a non-racist, pro-Europe Brexiteer who doesn’t want everything to be determined by Brussels. The Bremain side are choosing to ignore the moderate Brexiteers who aren’t all nazi type yobs.
        When I was a young reporter one of our local councillors didn’t take up allowances for attending meetings. He considered it a privilege to represent people and a duty to attend and contribute. Ha! A few more politicians like that would come in handy instead of the self-seeking selfish posturers we have now.
        The Haters are interesting. Somewhere I think I wrote about a former schoolfriend who said all Brexit voters should be hung from lamp posts. Really?

      • Seems we’re going to need a lot of lamp posts. I find it strange that not a single Bremainer can find anything negative to say about being in Europe. We’re British, that’s just not natural. But if they can see faults why can’t we, as well as find a need to address them?
        xxx Huge Hugs xxx

      • Just a few million. No idea how many lamp posts in the UK. Probably enough in Gib for the 800 who voted out.
        I think the issue is that when you are rich, and have second homes in Europe, and don’t have any issues with politicians not improving you lot and are a member of the Bullying Club or whatever it’s called, why would you vote out?
        If you live in poorer areas aka not the affluent SE, work in skilled/manual jobs, don’t have regular work, don’t have regular jolly jaunts to Europe, and you seem to be getting nowhere in life, why vote for Europe? Or, what’s Europe ever done for us? Everything in life is a trade-off.
        But I do think part of the vote was about dissatisfaction with arrogant politicians, in both UK and MEPS. And why not?

      • There was certainly a lot of dissatisfaction at MEP salaries and expenses and added in how many of them and our own MP’s employ members of their family at inflated incomes. So many of them are so far out of touch with most of us they’d never gain a degree in it as a subject.
        Have a nice weekend,
        xxx Huge Hugs xxx

      • You too daring. I mean darling🙂

        Xx

  18. This blog was… how do I say it? Relevant!!
    Finally I’ve found something that helped me.
    Thanks a lot!

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